Call it what you will, drastic police reform is needed, Minneapolis residents say

Patricia Young is fed up with the "macho attitude" of Minneapolis police.

Shalisa Jones-Lee is growing weary of hearing about all the "bad cops."

And Jilda Mastrey, frustrated by what she calls the "sword-carrying style" of so many officers, says she's eager to see the police department dismantled, with the city redirecting more of its money to mental health, affordable housing and education.

"There's been enough talk," Mastrey said. "We need action."

Interviews with dozens of Minneapolis residents last week suggest that the May 25 police killing of George Floyd, and the demonstrations that followed, represent a breaking point between citizens and police.

While recognizing the need to maintain public safety and protect the city from danger, many who were interviewed strongly favor reforming the police department and say drastic change is desperately needed.

But they also remain uncertain about what it would mean to dismantle or defund the force, ideas supported by a majority of the City Council in the wake of Floyd's death at the hands of four Minneapolis police officers.

As a starting point, many said, police treatment of citizens simply must change.

"The macho attitude needs to end," said the 76-year-old Young, a retired bus driver who lives in the Victory neighborhood of north Minneapolis. "All they're trained to do is restrain. They don't need all that gear — they're not in the army."

When Joyous Glenn saw the video of officer Derek Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck for nearly 9 minutes on Memorial Day evening, she recognized Chauvin immediately, as well as officer Tou Thao, who stood by without intervening. The two officers, who have since been fired and charged along with two other officers in Floyd's death, were often on patrol in the Webber-Camden neighborhood of north Minneapolis, where Glenn lives.

"They never came with nothing good toward blacks," said Glenn, 43. "They've been harassing people for a long time. They take their power and abuse it. And they wonder why we don't respect them."

Said Tania Benitez, 31, a cleaning worker from south Minneapolis, "They need to connect with people. They shouldn't be so quick to be threatened. I am scared of being pulled over or having an encounter with them, because you never know how they'll react."

On Friday, five City Council members proposed asking voters in November to decide whether to eliminate the police department requirement from the City Charter and replace it with a new department "to provide for community safety and violence prevention."

That would suit Mastrey, 64, a kitchen designer from northeast Minneapolis.

"Put the money toward mental health, affordable housing, education," she said.

Others, while supporting reform, worry that the fervor over the issue will make people impatient for immediate results.

"I absolutely believe that a large amount of the budget should be redirected toward other areas," said Richard Torpin, 35, a stay-at-home dad in northeast Minneapolis. But, he added, "it's going to be a long conversation. We can't snap our fingers and expect all the problems to be fixed. A lot of good has already come of that conversation."

"People mean a wide range of things," she said, "from shifting resources to complete abolition" of the department. But Cochran understands why council members have come out with bold — if undefined — statements.

"It should be glaringly obvious that there needs to be change," she said. "You set forth the proposal you want, not what you're willing to settle for."

On the North Side, where many of the city's black residents live, relations with the police are a constant source of tension.

"I have three sons. As a black woman, it's scary when you hear sirens," said Jones-Lee, 41, who lives in the Jordan neighborhood. "People say there are good cops and bad cops. How about, you don't get to be a bad cop?

"I would strip them of all the comfort they have behind the badge and the baton and the stun gun and the real gun. Have them walk a day like the black people who are unfairly targeted."

"They don't know the neighborhoods they're policing. That's a problem," said Brandon Steinhilber, 23, an online educator who lives in Loring Park.

Many also questioned the power of the police union, which they see as a barrier to holding officers accountable for their actions.

"The union needs to think about protecting the people, not protecting the officers," said Victor Koenig, 44, a retail worker who resides in the Powderhorn neighborhood. "There is no serving and protecting."

Nearby in Longfellow, hard-hit by the violent demonstrations that followed Floyd's death, residents want to see a plan for reform, and soon.

"There's a lot of things that need to be done," said Abdirauf Badri, a 19-year-old student. Chief among them, said his friend, 19-year-old Milton Ouma: "They need to stop killing black people for no reason."

"I respect the police. I support the police," he said. "They're the people who keep us safe when we sleep." Wald stressed that he supports racial justice and stands with Black Lives Matter, but he said those calling for immediately defunding or abolishing the police department "aren't thinking it through."

Doris Strand, 78, a retired secretary who lives in the Marshall Terraces neighborhood across the Mississippi River, echoed those thoughts.

"Absolutely not," she said of calls to defund or abolish the police. "I don't think it's necessary. I think they do a good job."

What comes next needs to consider the well-being of the entire community, said Nikayla Gibson, 49, who works in a disabilities program and lives in the Hawthorne neighborhood north of downtown.

"I think there needs to be a deep change," she said, "but you want the community to be whole, and the police department is a part of that."

Regardless of how it's labeled, it's clear that change is being demanded by many across the city, from people of all races and ages.

"They need to do a better job," said 19-year-old Karena Yang, a student from north Minneapolis.

"It was horrible how three officers were on that guy," she added, speaking of how police held down Floyd and put a knee to his neck. "He was handcuffed. He wasn't going to walk away."

"Frankly, I think the whole police department is broken," said Bruce Yoder, 73, a retired accountant from the Lake Nokomis area. "It needs drastic reform. Determine what jobs they're not well-suited for and assign those jobs to other, more well-qualified people.

"I'm an old white guy," Yoder added. "I shouldn't be afraid of the police in Minneapolis. But I am."