Dennis Anderson: 'We, as Indians, are not going away'

Erma Vizenor is tribal chairwoman of the White Earth band of Chippewa, whose 48,000-acre reservation lies in northwest Minnesota. The reservation is home to 530 lakes and three river systems, in which the primary fish species are walleye, northern pike and largemouth bass.

In the interview below, Vizenor, 65, discusses the off-reservation treaty-rights fishing "show of solidarity" some members of the Leech Lake and White Earth bands had planned for May 14, the day before the state's walleye and northern pike seasons open.

Tribal leaders have since said they have not sanctioned such an event, and instead prefer diplomatic talks with the state over treaty rights the bands believe they reserved in an 1855 treaty.

Vizenor served six years on the tribal council before being elected twice as its chairwoman. She holds two master's degrees and a doctorate, the latter from Harvard, where she studied administration, planning and social policy.

Q Were you aware of the off-reservation treaty-rights protest planned for May 14 that made the news last week? Leech Lake tribal officials said the event would be a "show of solidarity" for hunting, fishing and gathering rights they say they and other Chippewa bands retained in an 1855 treaty with the federal government.

A I had heard about the May 14 event only through hearsay. I haven't been in discussion with anyone about it.

Q Was the protest, as some called it, ever discussed by the White Earth tribal council?

A No, not at all.

Q When did you first hear about it?

A We have been having treaty meetings at Sandy Lake, near Mille Lacs, and I heard from some who attended one of the meetings that this had been discussed, or mentioned. For background, the White Earth tribal council organized the treaty meetings, and its own treaty council, approximately six months ago to explore our rights under the 1855 treaty.

Treaties between the federal government and Indian tribes are legitimate, paramount law in this country. That is the foundation of our thinking. We, as Indians, are not going away, so we're going to stand with our treaties throughout this exploration and strategizing period. But we are going to be careful. We will always approach these matters first through diplomacy.

Q How many treaty meetings have been held?

A At least five or six. First, the White Earth band organized its treaty council. Then, of course, we invited other tribes in the area that are part of this particular treaty to talk with us. That's what we've done, and we've been guided by legal opinions.

Q What was the genesis for forming a tribal treaty council, and for holding the meetings with the other bands?

A We as Indian people know what our rights are in the treaty. So we organized to begin the process of what we're going to do about them, about realizing those rights. We've coordinated with the Leech Lake band and in some cases Red Lake and Mille Lacs. We have to talk to one another about rights we have in common.

Q Are talks that are being held specifically limited to the 1855 treaty?

A Right now, yes. We're discussing our rights in the ceded territory affected by that treaty.

Q Generally, that territory encompasses the land north of a line the federal government drew in about 1825 to separate the Chippewa -- or Ojibwe, also known as the Anishinabe -- from the Sioux, or Dakota and Lakota. That line roughly tracks along what is now Interstate 94 but excludes the 12 east-central Minnesota counties covered by the 1837 Mille Lacs treaty, and excludes also, perhaps, far northwest Minnesota and the Arrowhead.

A It's a large territory.

Q Do you believe the White Earth and other bands have off-reservation hunting, fishing and gathering rights in that territory?

A We have never given them up.

Q Why didn't the bands seek validation, or affirmation, of those rights previously -- such as during the time the Mille Lacs band was fighting the state in court for its rights between 1990 and 1999?

A The White Earth band today has a very strong, progressive tribal council, and I'm very proud to lead the council as we enter into these discussions exploring our treaty rights.

But during the time you're referring to, the tribe was basically bankrupt and recovering from corruption. It's taken time for the tribe to stand up and be able to exert our rights. We had to focus first on finances. I'm not speaking for Leech Lake here, only White Earth. That was our situation.

Q Minnesota has a number of natural resources agreements with Chippewa bands around the state, including Bois Forte, Fond du Lac, Grand Portage, Leech Lake, Mille Lacs and perhaps others. Do you have any thoughts yet about the future as you envision White Earth and other bands exercising the rights they believe they have?

For instance, Grand Portage, Bois Forte and Leech Lake essentially lease back some of their hunting, fishing and gathering rights to the state in exchange for money, while Fond du Lac and Mille Lacs exercise their rights and co-manage some resources with the state.

A I'm aware of all of these agreements. But at this time, I'm not in a position to say what the White Earth band will pursue.

Q How many enrollees are there in the White Earth band?

A About 20,000. About 8,000 live on the reservation.

Q What do you hear "on the street," as it were, among band members? Are they interested in fishing and hunting off the reservation in the ceded territory if their right to do so is affirmed?

A I can say that the feeling of tribal members is not about money. It's about rights. Beyond that, it's premature right now to talk about this in detail. We've been in discussions only about six months among ourselves.

Q You said you were being advised by lawyers. Are those lawyers employed by the band, or are they from elsewhere around the nation?

A We have many lawyers advising us. Some work for the bands. One is Peter Erlinder of the William Mitchell law school in the Twin Cities.

Q If an off-reservation treaty-rights fishing or hunting event is held by White Earth band members in defiance of state law, would such a protest have to be approved by the council?

A Well, band member can choose to do what they please. From the position of our government, we prefer to start diplomacy first. As I said, if treaties are paramount law, and we Indians aren't going anywhere, we're going to look at this, and we're going to act on it one day.

Q Do you envision having talks with the state any time soon?

A I don't have any definite date to talk to the state. We're ready to talk any time. What we're not ready to do is sell out our rights. But we're ready to talk.

Dennis Anderson • danderson@startribune.com